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Angus Ross
Welcome to Rewilding Love. This season is with a couple on the brink of divorce.
Rohini Ross
This is episode number 26. And interview at Lainie Barrett.
Lainie Barrett
There'd be this moment of peace like when I'd wake up and then I would feel the obsession, like come back in
Angus Ross
Those obsessive compulsive tendencies. That was driven by me being locked in the prison of my critical mind. I just had this out of mind moment where I was connected with everything in the planet and I was everywhere, all at once expanded states of awareness are much more common than we realized. I did feel that like had to heart shift.
Angus Ross
The life-force power of this universe, coursing through me, comes to me through intuition or by whatever means my instincts, my gut.
Lainie Barrett
I don't actually feel like my body represents me. The empowerment is
Rohini Ross
Within you.
Lainie Barrett
I just want people to know how I'm comfortable being referred to.
Rohini Ross
We can be connected with the oneness, but we can also honor and respect our human form.
Angus Ross
It's so courageous for you to take that step. Every while
Lainie Barrett
It feels good to you. Same for me.
Angus Ross
You are listening to Rewilding love with me, Angus Ross,
Rohini Ross
And me Rohini Ross
Angus Ross
Rewilding Love is a podcast about relationships.
Rohini Ross
We believe that love never disappears completely in relationships. It can always be rewilded
Angus Ross
Listen in, as we speak with our guests about how they share the understanding behind the rewilding metaphor and their
Rohini Ross
Work and how it has helped them in their relationships.
Angus Ross
Relax and enjoy the show.
Rohini Ross
We are really grateful to have Laney Barrett as our guest today. Lainie is a valued member of our rewilded her team. We're very grateful for the work that Laney does. Lainie is in charge of the digital management for our brand. And Laney is also an amazing writer and makes my life so much easier because of their talent.
Angus Ross
And it's easy to see why Lainie would be considered to be such an amazing writer. Because they're so articulate, and such a great storyteller.
Rohini Ross
Yes, it was actually something that Lainie wrote that had me reach out and ask about this podcast episode. And I thought I would share what Lainie wrote here because it was really moving. Recently, Laney came out as non-binary. And this is what Lainie wrote. I don't identify as a woman, Lady or girl, she her are still acceptable pronouns for me. They them are also acceptable, but I preferred gender neutral nouns. Example, Laney is an annoying person. Or I remember when she was a kid, or tiny bear for a tiny human, and that's related to the post the image with the post. I wrestled with this for years because at some point I decided it was my responsibility, or good thing to do to expand what it means to be a woman for people and myself. Instead of the identifying with the gender I was assigned. This has led me to constantly write off my feelings of gender dissonance as not requiring any changes or accommodations. But recently, I've decided to give myself the gift of my own comfort and progress towards self-actualization. And I can see clearly that woman had does not need my personal identification in order to be an expensive gender inflated sense of self-importance indeed. So there you have it, happy to answer any thoughtful clarifying questions. And so after this post, I thought it would be a great idea to have Lainie speak more to this for us to learn more about it and also for our listeners to have a greater understanding as well.
Angus Ross
Yeah, it was certainly very educational for me. And I look forward to having a different vernacular for myself in the future.
Rohini Ross
In addition to Laney sharing their journey around gender dissonance and being able to feel comfortable coming out as non-binary. Laney also speaks to a profound spiritual awakening that was experienced and how that has continued to unfold and deepen for Laney as well as the impact that that has had on relationships and on the experience of anxiety. And I think that's a really interesting exploration as well. And Angus, I know that you have also suffered with compulsive thinking. And that's been something that you've really benefited from this understanding, helping you with you.
Angus Ross
You know, it's funny because I wouldn't necessarily use that label to describe myself, although maybe once upon a time I would. Now that just feels so alien to me, because I just see that, for me and myself suffering from obsessive compulsive thinking, was just where I was in my state of mind at that particular time. And I was making myself believe that those thoughts were real, that they were somehow defining me. Now I just see them for what they are, which is nothing more than an illusion. It's kind of like they're pixels on a screen. They're not real. And I think that this understanding helped me get a real sense of that. And I'm sure there was obviously an insight that came out of me realizing that I'm so much more than those pixels on a screen. But I am the life-force power of this universe, coursing through me, comes to me through intuition or by whatever means my instincts, my gut. And the rest of it is just stuff that I make up with my critical mind. And it's just not true. And in certainly in those sent in that situation, where I would have those obsessive compulsive tendencies, that was driven by me being locked in the prison of my critical mind, and not realizing that there's so much more to life for me in a much bigger way.
Rohini Ross
Yeah. And it's amazing how when we open up to who we are, in that much bigger way, how it helps us put those pixels into perspective so that they don't grip us in the same way. Yeah. And this also really points to that profound experience that Lainie had in terms of opening up to that experience of expanded consciousness. And that's powerful, when we can have that. And often, when we hear about those kinds of experiences, it It's as if there's only a limited number of people that access that state of consciousness. But I think more and more we're hearing how those kind of expanded states of awareness are much more common than we realize.
Angus Ross
Yeah, and I think for the most part, there's probably such a stigma attached to this idea that this is something altogether outside the box, and kind of a little bit woo woo. When in reality, it's something that's perfectly normal and to have a moment of awakening sounds so grandiose, but in fact, it's actually something that can be very simple and normal, and that you can be driving up the hill, as I was, and I had my own experience driving up Topanga Canyon, I just suddenly had this incredible sense that I'm kind of one with the tarmac and one with the trees, they're all made up with the same matter. We're all made up of the same subatomic particles, when it breaks down to that level. We're just all atoms assembled in different ways. But that intelligence, the same intelligence that coursing through me, courses through the atoms in the tarmac, are made up of the same material. And that, for me, is just my poor way of articulating what for me felt like a moment of awakening, but I kind of get what lane is going to share about on that sense.
Rohini Ross
Yeah. And also, what Lainie pointed to, which I think is really important is that we all have our unique experience of spirituality. Nobody can tell us what our version of spirituality is, we can only speak to our lived experience of it. And that there's a big difference between a conceptual understanding of spirituality and a lived experience and experiential knowing an embodied experience of that. And I thought Laney pointed to that really beautifully as well.
Angus Ross
Yeah, they did. The other thing that occurs to me to say here is that it's isn't it interesting how, as far as our own separate realities are concerned in the way that we filter, the outside world that we experience and create our own narratives around that when the subject of spirituality emerges. There's so much common ground and so much of it is universal, even in the same way that they were talking about how they had this experience that felt like a moment of awakening. I think that that moment of awakening is going to be pretty common for a lot of people in the way that they've had similar experiences. I've never I know that I've had a similar experience. So yeah, we can all have our own filter and our own way of seeing the world. But when it comes to spirituality, there is so much about it in terms of the storytelling in terms of the articulation. That is universal.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, but I would agree with that. And I also appreciated how Laney pointed to the importance of community. And that was one of the differences in terms of this time around deepening and spiritual understanding to do it in a communal setting. And I'm really grateful that Lainie is one of the practitioners in our rewilding community, and freshly certified rewilding guide, and sharing this understanding with people. So that's really exciting.
Angus Ross
For the number 62. Yeah. And isn't it interesting to how we are all communal creatures by nature, and how a significant part of Lainie’s healing was defined their self-invigorated by immersing their self in a community of people are looking in the direction of their essential nature?
Rohini Ross
Yes, and looking in that direction, through the lens of the rewilding metaphor, there's room for all of our human experience, there isn't a separation between the spiritual and the human, we recognize that it all comes from the same source. And that, as Laney mentioned, initially, when there was that awakening experience, there was the tendency to minimize the human experience and to poopoo poo preferences into a knot. Okay with that word.
Angus Ross
He said poopoo.
Rohini Ross
It is notice you bolted. And I said that
Angus Ross
it's, it's in the theme of toilet humor that we seem to get into last week.
Rohini Ross
Is that no, no, no cater Cuckoo. Well, what's it? What's an alternative that you would say?
Angus Ross
I don't know. I didn't really react to it. Did you seem to be more reactive to that I was?
Rohini Ross
Bolted up, but you don't normally look at me.
Angus Ross
By surprise, I hadn't heard you say something like that before. It's rude.
Rohini Ross
Okay, I guess that's not allowed on our podcast. So that we can have the tendency to minimize our human experience to override it thinking that it's not spiritual, that it's not important. And really from the rewilding understanding, it's making room for it all. And what I hear in Lenny's experience is that from a more grounded understanding, there's room for both and there's room for the human preferences. We can be connected with the oneness, but we can also honor and respect our human form. And then, in fact, through that ability to be with both we experience more of the unconditional love, that is our nature and then informs the choices that we make in our human experience. This is Laney coming out, and what was shared that was self-honoring that was coming from love. And in speaking to social justice issues, we can make choices that bring more love into the world and have us stand forward in activism, have a stand forward for equity and justice. And there doesn't need to be this false separation between our spiritual nature and our human experience.
Angus Ross
Amen to that.
Rohini Ross
All right, well, let's hear from Laney
Rohini Ross
Laney thanks you so much for being a guest on our podcast. We get to spend a lot of time with you and your support of the rewilding brand, the rewilding community, you're an amazing copywriter. And it's just wonderful to see you stepping into being of service and stepping into the role of practitioner and we really looking forward to having this conversation with you to explore what your experience has been with the rewilding journey for yourself and what that's opened up for you.
Lainie Barrett
Oh, awesome. I mean, I'm really happy to be here and felt really honored when you asked so it's great to be here.
Angus Ross
And thank thanks Laney so much that I think it's so generous of you to share this time with us and, and I know that you do so much for us to make our lives easier. I'm not exactly sure of all the things that you do. I know you do a lot. And as a consequence, our lives are easier. This is good news for me. I like my life to be easy.
Lainie Barrett
I hope so. Yeah. No. I'm definitely trying to have that be the outcome.
Rohini Ross
That's right. And there's that saying, but is it happy wife happy life? And this is very much in agreement.
Angus Ross
Absolutely. So yeah,
Rohini Ross
No, you're it's a huge, huge help everything that you do. So we are very grateful. For our listeners, we would love to have them hear about your journey, which started before we even met you in terms of coming across an understanding that that really shifted things for you. But it's been, you know, I don't know if you call it bumpy. Or it's, you know, it's been a journey. So we'd love to hear what that experience has been like for you.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, that's totally right, that I've had some peaks and valleys with this understanding. Um, so I, I was in grad school for my mental health counseling degree. When I, I was facing some personal troubles on the relationship front and just a whole lot of anxiety. I, we saw one therapist who said, I was having some like, relational PTSD, where I was really caught up on an event that had happened, like early on in our relationship, and I just like, could not move past it. Like I would wake up. In fact, Angus, you had a recording, where you talked about obsessive thinking, I'd get up and there'd be this moment of peace, like when I'd wake up, and then I would feel the obsession, like come back and like, dark snake. Yeah. So you know, that not great times. I wasn't sleeping well. And through this, I'm in counseling school. And, you know, I'm learning how to be a counselor, or learning the theories of treatment, really. And so there's a lot of like, dissonance, I don't feel that mentally healthy in my life, and I'm learning how to be a mental health practitioner. I'm learning different theories that I'm supposed to settle on as my idea of treatment, or like, what's going to work for clients in the future? And I still don't know what works for me. So I, you know, I just felt sort of like, a fraud. Um, and so I was, there's a lot of late night googling or whatnot of just like, how, how can I, I don't even know what I was asking Google probably, like, I just know, something came up with like, how to be happy or something like that, which then sort of pivoted into the coaching world, I stumbled upon, like, the Four Agreements written by Don Miguel Ruiz, and another coach who was talking about his stuff. And so I, it all started to like, open up for me when I found those those kinds of books, power of now. And for this, I mean, what I got from these readings was I could see my thoughts. So I there was like, I got to have a separation for the first time in a long time. And that brought on just like, a lot of relief. And eventually, I believe it might have been Amy Johnson was the first person I heard of, and I don't remember exactly how and then. And then Michael Neill and you know, like many others, you know, I read the inside out revolution. Yeah. And so then I went from, okay, I've had this like, separation between me and my thoughts, which was kind of mind blowing. And now I have something that I can actually spiritually connect to. So like the twofer became very enriching and and relieving. Yeah, I remember I was listening to one of his early podcasts and I was just driving over the freeway and I just had this very I want to say out of body because I was safely driving but I just had this out of mind moment where I was connected with everything in the planet and I was everywhere all at once and I'm It was just one of those magical moments where you then yeah, just like looked behind the wall. Um, and so this was all great and great news for me that I felt like this wild dose of enlightenment. But, you know, in the world of form and my regular life, I was then still having trouble kind of integrating this with finishing up my degree in traditional therapies and,
Lainie Barrett
and with fully battling the obsessive thinking that I had around my partner and so, um, yeah, I still didn't really, we ended up splitting up because I just really couldn't fully, I moved past a lot of things in my life with this understanding. I was sleeping better. I wasn't experiencing IBS. Like a lot. Yeah, like, just a lot of things were getting here. But I couldn't really crack the code on that. So we ended up breaking up and then yeah, like, sort of the darkness. Yeah, so that was, that was like, two years later after I'd first discovered this. And, and that was the first time where then I kind of just fully, I couldn't really read about this understanding and whatnot, because I didn't feel like I think it was a misunderstanding at the time, but I didn't think I could unthink my experience. It just was too painful. And so we sort of I lost touch for a while. Um, and, and Rohini as you know, specifically, like, another reason I was having trouble is sometimes the things I would read about or the communities I would find on Facebook to, to pop into the way that they talked about, or didn't talk about social justice issues, like just felt missing the mark for me, and so just kind of dabbled in dabbled out for a while. And then I won't get I won't dwell on all the details. But things, you know, started to look up for me. And I started to kind of get back into this a bit, I got into a new relationship. So I felt some of the same old thinking habits starting to come back. And I saw I sat, traditional help and this understanding, you know, three principles help as well. And, and that's when I found you, and you had, you know, after George Floyd was murdered, I guess this is last summer. You know, you had the blog where the subject line was just straight up Black Lives Matter. And so I, I was like, Okay, I like this. So I kind of came fully back in, if you will, which led to joining the rewilding community and the rewilding guide training.
Angus Ross
You were the gateway drug?
Rohini Ross
Right. And I'm what I hear in that in terms of when you sort of revisited, looking at things from this perspective, and reconnecting in a sense, through the lens of the rewilding metaphor, you know, it's our metaphor doesn't there's, there's no one way to open up to our spiritual nature. This is the way that Angus, and I like to speak to it. But what would you say was the deeper cut or the misunderstanding that got cleared up inside of you when you came back in? Because it sounded like that was a different experience less from the intellect perhaps. So I just was curious about that.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, I think what was missing before was community and, you know, talking about and experiencing this with other people. And so in doing that, I was able to go kind of out of the intellectual and really get more of the kind of live more in the feeling space that people in this understanding have historically talked about. And so I did feel that like head to heart shift. So you know, if there were still some gaps intellectually or things I couldn't like, quite reckoned with, I started to feel which kind of filled that gap. And at the same time, with rewilding, I was able to embody the unknown You're standing differently, like feel my own voice and my own way of understanding it. Which helped me to feel the truth in it. Versus before I was kind of looking to the practitioners to get it perfectly right in order for me to like, buy it, you know. And then instead, I was like, I was feeling it. And I was realizing that I can have my own take on this. So sort of empowered, I guess with the rewilding.
Angus Ross
Even this morning, I worked with a new client. And an always when you're sharing this understanding for the first time, and you try to make the appropriate points, I guess. But they always want that magic bullet, that process or that technique. And so often now I find myself just trying to cut to the chase is like, I can't answer those questions for you, you got to find that voice with inside of you. And that's really, really my job as a coach is to is to get them to really develop a rapport with that part of themselves to reacquaint themselves with that part of themselves so they can make those decisions for themselves with so right, what you're saying is finding that voice. And trusting that and trusting our intuition form is always kind of clunky. It's like there's not a one size fits all, you know, even with the principles, its form. It's a, it's a way of pointing to form, which, you know, is going to have its shortcomings. I'm sure I'm sure Sid banks would be the first to say that.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, there's no way to put something that's formless into form without it being, as Greg was, say, compress the impact in it. Absolutely. But I really appreciate what you're saying Laney about recognizing that the empowerment is within you, that there isn't anyone outside of you that can give it to you, or who can really get it right for you. That has to happen for each of us within ourselves. I love that.
Lainie Barrett
Exactly. Yeah.
Rohini Ross
And as part of this experience, where it sounds like more of an embodied spirituality, would you call it that? Yeah, yeah. So more of an embodied feeling full experience of spirituality. How did that impact you in terms of realizations? You know, the increase in self love, like, how did that unfold for you in your personal life and within yourself?
Lainie Barrett
I think one of the first things I started to notice, like during our, the training, I would go with my first inkling more often, you know, like, I could really start to see again, how I pile up thoughts or fears or assumptions on top of like, what my original gut, you know, thought was, um, and so I started to just do a little less thinking just in that way. And then, in the personal life that translated into, like, are these in my partnership? Yeah, letting the upset just like kind of roll away a little bit sooner, a little bit quicker, wanting to reconnect quicker to just start a feeling of connection with each other versus like, needing to have gotten all the words, right. It's just starting to shed things that aren't true. And honestly, this also, you know, came together with moving across the country and a COVID. And rewilding, and so I have all this, you know, time and space to shed the things that I'd been speedily accruing without much thought, you know, whether it's jobs or friends or so I could really think about, like, what do I What do I enjoy doing? What do I feel good at? What do I feel confident about? Um, and what am I still embodying about myself or saying about myself, that actually doesn't feel good to me, you know, and so and one of those things was kind of just rolling with it when I be lumped in to like a Hi ladies intro and an email or like, you know, or just being I think sometimes So, you know, presenting as what I would call a little like more masculine. Sometimes you think people are going to pick up on what you are like, attempting to put out there you know, which matches your insight more and but people you know, Aren't, they're gonna see what they see, they're gonna not want to make assumptions or something. So I think I was thinking that people would kind of know to ask me or, or maybe mistakenly, you know, mistake me for non binary or a man or something. And then, as that wasn't happening, I was like, you know, maybe it's just time to like actually own it. So that's the other way in which it Coleman.
Rohini Ross
Yeah. And I think that that's really, you stepping into your authenticity and empowering yourself in that way and educating people as well. And that's one of the reasons we wanted to have you on as a podcast guest because I think it takes a lot of courage to do that. And you're really demonstrating leadership that supports not just yourself, but others in this way. And I'm wondering, could you share a little bit more about what that experience has been like for you in terms of gender dissonance and how that's unfolded? Because I think that's something that a lot of people don't know much about. And it would be great. I know, for Angus, and myself to learn more about it, as well as our listeners, too.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, totally. Um, I mean, for me, really, I've just always felt like uncomfortable with my body. And, you know, there's times where you'll relate it to well, like, plenty of people don't like this or that or, like, their thighs, or their boobs are too big or too small. And it's like, Yeah, but no, like, I just, I don't actually feel like my body represents me. And I think sometimes that's, that might be a key difference in the dissonance piece. And it kind of, I think, I didn't know how much that was really blocking me from feeling embodied as we keeps, like we're feeling like instead of there's this outline of myself, outside of myself, it's like to really match up with me, I think, um, my body presentation just doesn't match that. And so for me, we answer I think I might be losing.
Rohini Ross
Oh, good. It's a recording
Angus Ross
What you're saying sounds so far, it sounds so healthy and grounded. Because most people I'm sure, go through life with those, those challenges and those insecurities around body image? I know certainly I did, I can put my hand up to that no uncertain terms. So I think just to sort of have that as part of your, you know, a makeup is pretty incredible. It sounds healthy. To me, I would like more of that for myself.
Rohini Ross
That's where it's very relatable for all of us on some level where we can relate to having dislike or not feeling good about a certain part of our body. But also what I'm hearing you say is that there's this dissonance between how you feel inside and what gets represented outside, which is slightly different than just having a Oh, I don't like my thighs kind of experience. Is that accurate? Yeah, totally. Like,
Lainie Barrett
I mean, just to be, like, explicit about it, like, yeah, my chest is just, it's it. I wish it wasn't what it is. Um, and, um, you know, so I just would kind of, I think I would diminish these feelings. And instead of just deciding that I wanted to, you know, make moves on this or, or requests a different way of being referred to, I would just kind of push it down as being like, not as, you know, like, if I'm, if I was fully trans, I would know it or something. I think sometimes, it for me, what happened is I needed to start looking at what I'm not before I could really, like I say what I am, and I think because I didn't know what I was for so long, I would just didn't say anything. And so when I decided to, you know, really, I guess come out as non-binary. Which I'm not even sure I clearly did. Because I actually wasn't clear that I would refer to myself that way at the time. But, you know, when I came out as Hey, I don't identify as a woman or a lady. Here's what you can call me. Um, for me that was coming out is what I'm not unlike I'll keep you all posted on who I am. As I keep discovering that I'm at so actually, what ended up happening is some of my friends who do present more masculine Li, you know, and are in female bodies, and haven't historically identified as Trans. Like, whoa, like, you really put a voice to this for me, because then, you know, I wasn't sure if I felt comfortable with that or like, and by saying instead, like, here's the nouns that I have trouble with versus like, okay, I fit squarely in these pronouns, you really put, you really showed me that actually, I can request a change, I can or like a, you know, a change in how I'm referred to, even if it's not the like, I'm going from she heard they them or something. I was like, I'm going from she heard, so you can still say that, or they them. But I'm not a woman or lady.
Rohini Ross
It's expensive. And it's also I would imagine, helpful in terms of, for people to really know that to be able to have that kind of respect and sensitivity to have that made clear. I think that's so important. And it sounds like that was a very liberating and empowering experience for you to do that. Is that accurate?
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, honestly, like, after I posted that, and the reason I like posted it on social media was just, that's the best catch all they can do, right? We don't have like, email chains anymore. Like, I didn't flip through my Rolodex. But like, um, you know, it wasn't like, I wanted attention, or cheers or anything, it was like, I just want people to know how I'm comfortable being referred to. And there's a learning curve, and that's fine, but at least we've laid it bare. Um, but so anyway, after I posted that, I just felt this like confidence. Like, I just felt this, like, I was kind of walking on a cloud, because, man, I just felt more like myself than I had, like, maybe ever. Yeah. So that was cool.
Angus Ross
I think that's so inspiring. And I think that kind of in in general terms, I feel like there is there are so many rule books about how you're supposed to do this human experience. And everybody feels like, well, we need to conform to the rules. And quite often, intuitively, those rules don't seem to be working for us individually. And I still think there's a tendency to feel Yeah, but still, everybody else is doing it this way. We need to do it this way. We need to conform. And yet our gut is telling us No, this is not for me. And I feel like for the most part, that's what depression looks like. It's feeling like here are these rules, I'm supposed to following it, follow them. But my intuition is telling me otherwise. And I feel like you in this example is like, you know what, my gut is telling me something else. I want to go and explore those possibilities, and see what kind of feedback I get. But I feel like when we come into resonance with that innate self-confidence, that intuition that really is where that self-confidence is is that Yeah, the results of that, yeah, I do feel kind of great. I made this move, I went on this exploratory exercise that felt like, intuitively, I was going in the right direction, I still don't know where it's leading to me leading to ultimately, but I feel so much better taking that step into the unknown, rather than resting on everybody else's laurels in terms of like, you know, better stay put better follow the rulebook? Who wants to do that? So I just think it's just so courageous for you to take that step and then experience the thrill of life. Yeah, you know, I'm going in the right direction here, because I'm following my intuition. I'm not doing it on anybody else's terms. And that's the way to do life. You know, it's a contact sport. And it's like, you know, go out there and make contact with it. Don't just sit still and do nothing. It's all about taking that step into the unknown and see what feedback we get. doesn't necessarily mean it's going to take us in the direction we expect or anticipate. But just by taking that step is just so invigorating, I think.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, I mean, how are you said, like, right direction. That was like the neon sign for me like, boom, this is the right direction. And I don't know how far I'm gonna take it if there's gonna have to be another outing. I'm cool with three or four. That's fine. But like, right direction. Yeah.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, that was clear. Yeah, that's the feedback Angus is talking about you got really clear in her feedback that this is this is the right direction. That the feeling lets you know like I'm on track.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, and the funny thing is, honestly, in the gender exploration, I've had some dissonance with this understanding, because when I first came into this understanding i is I won't say like loss of identity, but sort of like, I don't care, like I don't need my identity. Because I kind of zoomed out so big and was just soaring in the skies. Like, who cares about this body or how it's represented? Um, so sometimes I like I like this feedback, because you're right, there was a lot of my true nature happening. And that's the way in which you guys have talked about this understanding, as rewilding has been a really helpful framework for me to be able to do identity work. And still, you know, I'm still sometimes be in the sky.
Rohini Ross
Yes.
Lainie Barrett
You can have both. Yeah. And I think before I thought I was only connected with this, if I was like, disconnected from everything. Yeah. But now I know that I can be connected, even to my thoughts, and some of them hold more water for me than others. And some of them I do really need to, like, follow. Mm hmm.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, there's a beautiful bridge, I think that we, in the human form, have that connection, as you're saying with the sky, the formless, the essence of who we are. And we get to have this experience in human form. That is an incredible gift. And we don't need to negate that. And we don't need to diminish that it's not less than or not as important. It's all part of that wholeness of who we all are.
Angus Ross
Yeah. And it's a case of kind of creating balance between those two fields, we are part sky, and we are, we are part critical mind. And the two need to be imbalanced with one another. And that's how we're supposed to do life.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, it's like, if we look at it from a spiritual perspective, the sky We could say, represents consciousness, and everything happens within consciousness. And there's nothing that separate from that. And so why would we diminish anything? That's part of that, because it's all happening within the wholeness. And we don't need to reject the human form or reject the human emotions or whatever that might be. In order to be connected with our spiritual nature, I think that's sort of a misunderstanding that I had running for quite some time is that somehow, my human emotions were less than, and that if I would get into a negative headspace or emotional space, that that would mean that I wasn't spiritual. It was it was something bad and wrong. And now, why we use the term rewilding is because we see the health in at all, we recognize that all of it is part of the expansion and awareness and consciousness and the we actually, for me, it is only true when it's an embodied experience. It didn't feel as impactful. It felt much more conceptual when I wasn't including all of that in there. And so it just feels more alive to me when I talk about it that way. Now,
Angus Ross
I always think that the rewilding is to me synonymous with growth. And you know that so much a part of that field of consciousness is growth and evolution, and having, ultimately the most optimal experience in that growth and evolution. And we couldn't be where we are today, as a race as a universe as a as a planet without there being that trajectory, to have the most optimal experience in whatever life form, whatever shape that takes. Its like, that's to me, what, what the sky is the sky's the limit. There's no limit.
Lainie Barrett
Well, that's true. And like that growth is always just, like bubbling beneath the surface without us doing anything.
Angus Ross
And that growth is about us is about stepping into the unknown. It's just like, you know, moving forward, it's not about staying still. And I think there are so many thoughts to have around what depression for me looks like is just staying still. And kind of been stuck with that set of rules and being pigeon holed by that set of rules and making that set of rules somehow our identity, when to step outside the box is where it where our where our health is for me. So that's what we're here to do. We're here to grow and evolve, not stay still.
Rohini Ross
And I and I hear you in terms of your expression, that that's part of the growth that's part of expressing your true nature and it's not separate from that.
Lainie Barrett
Totally. And I think Part of the growth for me was like, you know, taking up space in that way. Like, I, hey, I get to ask for this. Yeah, like,
Rohini Ross
Yeah, um,
Lainie Barrett
I think that was a big step for me instead of like, wanting, you know, doing a lot of living life for other people's comfort in certain ways and just being like, you know, I got to ask for this.
Rohini Ross
And you asking for it benefits all of us, it contributes to the richness for all of us and seeing that symbiosis and how that expression in the human ecosystem, how it really increases diversity, it increases the lightness, it increases understanding and connection and that experience of love, that it's not a selfish act. Even if you're doing it for yourself, it can't help but not have those repercussions, whether it's this or whether it's someone else with what they're needing to listen to, and rewilded within themselves, like, it's always a benefit to the whole.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, my favorite part was definitely getting the text from other people who just felt like, Whoa, you just nailed it for me, like, I hadn't thought about it that way.
Rohini Ross
You use the term? I think you said fully trans. And I'm curious what that means to you? And if that's kind of an evolving term, or just just what significance that has?
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, I know, that's a great question. Um, so I used to think of fully trans as meaning that you are transitioning from one end of the binary to the other, you know, whether male to female, female to male. And I, which was part of why I really didn't want to, like do what might feel like co-opting this space from people who do go through a full transition and everything that comes with that, if I wasn't like, doing that, or, um, but so I was looking into, I mean, really even just the actual definition of trans as it isn't like Merriam Webster, I think, and it is said, you know, any sense that you are not, in some way, the gender that was assigned to you, or that you don't identify with it? So it's like, Okay, well, I definitely fit into that. And for the first time, I don't know why it hadn't occurred to me before. But I started looking up some trans literature and, you know, there's just, there's books and things where the title is literally just, you are trans enough. And, and, you know, they've talked about how, you know, in the dominant culture, like sis culture, there's, it's almost that that's their idea of what transgender is, is that you would have to be doing both. And that actually, there's this whole spectrum, and I still feel a little bit uncomfortable, like referring to myself as trans. for trans people, because I feel like I yeah, I just made me need to have a conversation with someone who, who identifies as trans and maybe it has transitioned to make sure that I'm not like co-opting their space. Yeah. And I haven't done that yet.
Rohini Ross
And that's okay.
Lainie Barrett
But so far there. I've some of the literature I've been reading has reinforced that there's a big spectrum to this.
Angus Ross
Yeah. Isn't it interesting how though we do kind of create rules where wherever we are in life, we like those rules. And I guess I think that the thing about rewilding is kind of like that movie, The Fight Club. The first rule of flight? Well, that's one of the rules, but I think wasn't one of the rules is like the first rule of Fight Club is there are no rules, we'll have
Rohini Ross
To check. We'll have to fact check
Angus Ross
that check that but, but what I My point is, is it's so easy to sort of like go from one set of rules to another set of rules. And really all that matters is the rules that we create for ourselves. It's like what works for us, is I think, really what, what counts and what's important, but we get so kind of caught up in this sort of critical minded approach. Like Yeah, you're not gonna follow the rules here because that's what the realm of the critical mind is all about. But on an intuitive level, it's just like, no, Let's march to the beat of our own drum and see where that leads as something so liberating and refreshing. Around that, and I think you're just your story is so inspiring from that point of view?
Lainie Barrett
Well, it's tough because there's a balance between, you know, new and an expanded language to have to include representation. Without then that language becoming a box of its own. Yeah. And I think that's what happens a lot. Um, but I, you know, as we're saying, it's all of these things are important. So I still think that language and checking in with those people who are, who have been representing that way, for a long time is just a good way to like, gut check that your Yeah, I mean, just, I guess I'll say co-opting again, but like, just that, you know? Yeah, yeah. But it's true. It's like you're, I think that's, that's what I learned in looking at transits like, oh, there aren't as many rules to this as I thought,
Rohini Ross
yeah. It's even more expensive than you realize.
Lainie Barrett
That's what I write thing. And I had been feeling bound by while I’m loving seeing pronouns, and glad that people were making that more visible. I was like, Well, I don't, then I was thinking about my journey in terms of pronouns and trying to figure out if I was evade them, like as if that's an identity on its own. And so I got hung up in those boxes being like, I can't, I don't think I can jump squarely into that one. So it is funny the boxes we really encapsulate. Yeah.
Rohini Ross
So maybe you could share a little bit more about the use of pronouns. I know that I've been asked about it, because I have she her on mine. And then I was talking with one at one of my daughters, and they're like, well, maybe he or she, they? And I'm like, Well, I don't know enough about that. I need to look into that more. So I would just love to hear what you think about the helpfulness of identifying pronouns and the importance of that. And just any anything else that you have to say on that topic would be probably helpful for us.
Angus Ross
Yeah, I had a client the other day he was saying he was asking me he didn't understand why he got an email from his daughter, and in brackets, it was she her underneath her names, like, please tell me explain. I couldn't really do a good job. So maybe I'll share this podcast with him, hopefully, or enlighten him. And me too.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, I think I had maybe like the same reaction in the beginning as well, and had to learn about it too. So it can feel interesting for this this person to put she her or him and, and then the person receiving emails like Yeah, no.
Angus Ross
Is this a riddle?
Lainie Barrett
Right, like, Okay, um, it opens the door for people who don't have pronouns that either would be assumed to be their matching ones, or that, you know, are they then it opens the door for them to put it on their signature as well. Now, they could be the only ones putting it. And since people not putting it, but then there's sort of this other ring to that, like the way that says people have taken it on as well. In my mind, it kind of, it's a nod to, like I see you, you know, like I understand this might be something that is gonna be different for you. So let me put mine down. And it's like, it's also showing that we're all kind of signing the gender as a construct petition. Like, by putting it you're telling, you're affirming that we can't just assume someone's gender based on how they look. So I think it's just a great nod to this progress.
Angus Ross
I like that idea of being a petition.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, we've signed the petition.
Angus Ross
Can I ask a question on that? And I hope I'm not gonna put my foot in my mouth. I probably am. I probably should know this. But you you've referred to CES a couple of times. I don't know what that is.
Lainie Barrett
No, yeah, that's a great question. So Sis, and I don't actually know the root of like, why that's the word used, but it refers to someone who identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth. So if you're like a sis male, it means like, you're not a trans male. You've been
Angus Ross
Like an acronym or something.
Lainie Barrett
No, I think it's like a shortened I don't want to misspeak either. And we could put it in the show notes.
Rohini Ross
Put it in the show notes. Yeah, cuz
Lainie Barrett
Because yeah, I'm not exactly sure the route but it's I don't it might be an acronym, actually. But yeah, so CES, just that's what I mean when I say that. It's cis.
Angus Ross
Yeah,
Rohini Ross
I'm glad that you asked that. Because probably a lot of people might not know that. Oh,
Angus Ross
my God, I shouldn't Am I supposed to know this?
Lainie Barrett
Yes, you are. Well, and I just want to like say that Questions are great. You know, like, I do think it's really it. I mean, I don't want to speak for everyone but I like when people are curious and ask questions because then it just yeah, it shows an interest and like a respect for. So don't worry about putting your foot in your mouth.
Angus Ross
I worry more for my wife because she doesn't like it when I do.
Lainie Barrett
She might, she might put your foot in your mouth. You're trying to avoid that
Angus Ross
Fantasize about that numerous cases
Rohini Ross
I feel like you're putting your foot in my mouth and I don't like that. Learn to be less codependent and controlling.
Angus Ross
Can I share the April Fool's joke or go
Rohini Ross
Ahead? Go ahead. So
Angus Ross
You know, you made your post on Facebook explaining, you know, pronouns and that was wonderful. And so Rohini came into the room and I said, Oh, I just saw Ladies, ladies post. When she says that's great. Did you comment? I said, Yeah, I said, You go girl, and she cried out for a good minute. And I said April Fool's Day.
Lainie Barrett
I love that. I can't really picture that.
Rohini Ross
You should have video that we gonna send it to Lady.
Lainie Barrett
I guess I should have done an April Fool's joke.
Rohini Ross
Oh, my goodness, you really got me but it was after 12. And I know that you're not supposed to do April Fool's after 12.
Angus Ross
I'm an I'm an icon class, let me What can I say?
Rohini Ross
You totally got me on it; I believe do that, which just shows what I think about you. Well, we can say we can call you a girl now because you're gonna call me a guy. Yeah,
Lainie Barrett
criss cross.
Rohini Ross
Goes both ways.
Rohini Ross
That point, though, that you said about gender being constructed, I think is a really interesting and, you know, profound point. And there's a lot of misunderstandings around gender and misbeliefs around it. So, um, is that anything that you'd like to speak to here?
Lainie Barrett
I mean, I think this is where everyone you know, everyone can relate to being boxed in, you know, like, even if you are, Sis, right? Like, you know, traditionally, for a man, that might mean, you're like, not supposed to cry, or, like, I think we're progressing toward breaking a lot of the gender boundaries. And even if that doesn't mean like, dis identifying with your gender, it could mean expanding your box, and like what that means to be a woman, a woman to be a man to be non-binary or whatever. So that's the cultural I guess. encasement that's not, that's not too healthy. And then construct wise, yeah, it's just that we create based on you know, what, really, at birth, like, at birth, we create based on genitalia that is, and then there's this whole other thing of some, a lot of times sex is actually ambiguous. So we just build a lot of House of Cards around like, what that means for that how this person is going to be presenting in the world or presented to the world. And so that would be what I would say about gender being a construct is it's not actually real. It's something quote, unquote, man-made. You know, I'll say human made, human made. But actually, it is. That's actually technically I grew. But yeah, so anytime we start expanding, that is a good is a good time.
Angus Ross
That's right. I shouldn't say just so balls down the programming and condition.
Rohini Ross
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And to realize that we can wake up from that and to even just being able to see it is made up and conditioning is fraying. And then we have some choice over whether or not we do want to identify with it or perhaps we realize that deeper inclination within us is actually pointing us in a different direction beyond that conditioning and that we can actually embrace that which is what I hear you really being a beautiful model for.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, and like and this isn't me like, you know, raining on femininity and masculinity. Like, it's more me saying that it's also much more in her twined. Like, I think feminine and masculine elements can are beautiful things. And sometimes you really want both. And it's a balance and, and you know, there's obviously stuff in between there too. But um, yeah, so it's not saying it's not crapping on gender, it's scrapping on the boundaries that we create for gender and who we create those rules for and how,
Rohini Ross
yeah, and it's like, for me, I feel that I mean, this is how I see it is that we all have feminine and masculine qualities within ourselves. There's not it's not about sex. Those are just qualities that we have as humans, and I can embrace some pretty masculine qualities at times or be more feminine, just depends on you know, where I'm at.
Angus Ross
Mua will see...
Rohini Ross
fancy,
Lainie Barrett
what is the
Rohini Ross
me to what we'll see?
Angus Ross
Yes, I know. I didn't know how to respond to it. You were looking at me to sort of come up with some sort of profound statement and
Rohini Ross
No, I wasn't looking at you for pronouncing was I was looking at you because you made a noise and I thought maybe you wanted to say something.
Angus Ross
I don't now I've made a noise.
Rohini Ross
Sometimes I hear you making noise. I hear a noise of a scent. It could be. There was one other thing that I wanted to explore because you talked about in our email how being queer or trans is not innately painful, and that sometimes it's portrayed as if it is innately painful. I thought that was a really important point to share about so I'd love to hear more about that, too.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. Um, yeah, it's just that, it's like, you know, some some of the typical responses, historically to someone may be coming out as gay or queer, whatever. It from like a parent or, okay, I'm not gonna get this right. I'm just gonna, like, say it is like, Oh, no, you know, do you know that? Like, you're gonna have a painful life or like, this is? Like, I just, I just want what's best for you. And I just want you to be okay in the world. And it's like, so the issue isn't the queerness the gayness The issue is the dominant cultures response to that queerness. And the marginalization that happens as a result of it or not having equal rights, those are the things that are painful, but not being in same sex relationship, or having same sex attraction, or being gender queer, and outside of the binary, those things are fun. I mean, I think the fear we bump up against fear of what that will mean and how we will, how we will be able to operate in a world that like Angus, you're saying is not set up for you.
Rohini Ross
We were saying that before the recording started, I think we're saying that Angus sometimes says it's hard being an Angus. And it's because the world isn't really set up for someone with an Angus type brain.
Angus Ross
Typically, that is the case
Rohini Ross
Is like you're having to use, you know, you're not left handed. But it's like Greg was saying how he's left handed and has to use scissors that are made for people that are right handed. And it's really y
Angus Ross
Yeah, I have to find my own way. I guess greatest example of that was when I was a photographer, and I learned I taught myself Photoshop. And the way that I do Photoshop for my photography is altogether completely different to how it's taught. To the people that I came across with, these are the most of the most of the art directors who like you know, press a keyboard key on a board and do some technique, but I have some incredible techniques. And they were just flabbergasted how I would do these things with Photoshop, that was so against the rules, but I still got to the same place and sometimes quicker. But I just learned my way. I think that's the fantastic thing about life is we're all individuals. And we can just rely on on that creative source which is universal. And we just get to distill it in our own inimitable way. And that's what's fantastic about life for me is seeing everybody's individually expression, using the same core source of inspiration and creativity, and just to see what they do with it. I love that I love what you're doing with it. I love what you're doing. I love what I'm doing. It's like that's what's awesome about being human is just being able to let people freely express themselves how they want to do it. It's their life, let them do it how they want to.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, it's embracing the diversity that is a bonus for all of us. And that's what I hear you saying Laney is that when we get outside of the constructs that have been made up, or that have just been assumed how things need to be, and really allow ourselves and others to listen deeply to what feels true and alive inside of them. We change things boxes fall away. But there's a richness that emerges from that. That is just so powerful, and I think strengthening for all of us that we all benefit from it.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, that kind of brings up for me like, a good way of, of telling someone about how this is innately. Good feeling is it's just like rewilding, for anybody else. Like whenever someone feels really, truly embodied and truly authentic. Like that's what it feels like to be living in a. Yeah, it even if that takes the shape of queerness, or Yeah, same sex relationship or whatever. So that would be my response is like, well, if rewilding feels good to you, same for me.
Rohini Ross
Exactly. It does. It feels expensive and alive. Exactly. Is there anything that we have our fun questions that we're going to ask you. But before we get to that, is there anything that we haven't covered that you'd like to have us cover as part of this episode?
Lainie Barrett
I don't think so. And if there's anything lingering, it might end up coming through with the relationship questions?
Rohini Ross
Okay.
Angus Ross
I have a question.
Rohini Ross
Go ahead.
Angus Ross
So the term queer I'm Is it one of those terms that only someone who is gay can use? Because if I use that term queer, it just sounds like that's a derogatory term, it seems like coming from my lips that might be offensive. A friend of mine who's gay may refer to himself that way. But I don't think I could refer to him that way. Because he would probably be offended. That's my assumption. Anyway, so I was surprised to hear that.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, so I mean, it used to be used as, like, a derogatory thing against gay people. But now, you know, we've sort of turned it into a, it really came about, because gay and lesbian is also on a binary. So we needed a word that is more umbrella to like, especially if you're gonna if you're non binary, and you're, or if you're in a relationship with a trans person. And then by being gay, as a result, it's not honoring that that person had a trans journey. So then queer kind of like, is this big umbrella that allows more space for it to be out of the binary. So that's why we've started using it that way. I don't know when it specifically took a positive turn. And so I think there's just a big difference between being like, you queer, and being like, Oh, my friend identifies as queer, or my friend. I think you could say, My friend is queer. And yeah, especially if that's how they identify. That wouldn't sound like you're saying like, he's a queer. Yeah,
Rohini Ross
yeah. Okay.
Angus Ross
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I'm ready to go there. Yeah. Yeah,
Rohini Ross
yeah. Well, I think what's happening though, is that it's been co-opted and reused in a way that's empowering. Yeah, that derogatory connotation is actually gets wiped out in a sense. Yeah, from that, or the intention behind it. Yeah.
Lainie Barrett
And I have this thing where I think adjectives tend like using words. Am I saying that right? using words as adjectives, instead of a noun is less derogatory sounding or gentler, like being like that, like, that's, I've, well, actually, that's because of gender. I was gonna say, I've usually identified as gay, because I like that it's an adjective instead of I'm a lesbian, when you know, and so, or someone says gays, you instead you'd say like, gay people, right? So anytime you kind of just turn it into it's a descriptor instead of like a noun. That already kind of makes it feel more respectful.
Rohini Ross
That's a good rule of thumb.
Rohini Ross
All right. Are you ready to move on to the question?
Angus Ross
I am
Rohini Ross
Crazy. These are
Angus Ross
the questions
Angus Ross
Yeah.
Rohini Ross
Finally, Angus Lainie are you ...
Rohini Ross
Is it ok the questions,
Rohini Ross
Lanie is in a relationship.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah, currently in a relationship at least the last time I check.
Rohini Ross
For people that don't know what he's talking about he, he was a little insensitive about these questions
Angus Ross
with someone who had broken up. Yeah, like that was inappropriate.
Lainie Barrett
But you were just thrown off course because you were trying to be ready for the schedule. And so then you're showing like I'm here. I'm ready. I'm ready to the questions. I know what we're doing. Right. I want to follow the rules. At least that's how I heard it. It was
Rohini Ross
one of those days and it was hard being an Angus.
Angus Ross
That was hard. It was hard for you that I was being an Angus is more.
Rohini Ross
That's right. I have to expand my box.
Angus Ross
I would quite happy asked the question. You are having a problem with it?
Rohini Ross
Okay, we'll have to try them out. broken up how they feel about it?
Angus Ross
Yeah, be interesting.
Rohini Ross
All right. Well, this is the first question. What's one of your fondest memories in your relationship?
Lainie Barrett
Hmm. Um, okay, I'll just sorry. Yeah, I really didn't prepare for the Oh, but as improv just like everyone is okay. Yeah.
Rohini Ross
First thing that comes to mind.
Lainie Barrett
Okay. Um, jeez, I mean, I guess, when she finally told me that she liked me back. I'd kind of put myself out there and she wasn't ready to hear that. And then we, you know, kind of kept hanging out his buddies. And then she was like, you know, I'm into, and that kind of put me into the fetal position.
Angus Ross
That's lovely. That is definitely a fond memory. Yeah. Well, what is one of the funniest memories in your relationship?
Lainie Barrett
funniest. Um, gosh, okay, I guess we aren't laughing enough. I think it's the COVID thing where it's like real life. Things that I learned are just so long ago. Um, I think the funniest Okay, so this came to mind. Um, you know, like the Richard scary books, like the lowly worm, who drives that Little Apple Car my tome? Or what are they 90s kid thing.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, missed the gap. Our kids were born then. And we were reading those books.
Angus Ross
I want to check it out.
Lainie Barrett
The gap. I yeah, I grew up with those books. And there's a worm. It's a drawing. And he's driving, I think it's a he driving an Apple Car. And he's got like this little look on his face. And Allie my often makes that face. And so I had to call her the lowly worm. She wasn't a fan. But then once I ordered this T shirt that has the graph of it, she's really embraced it. And now she just like, makes the face all the time. That's been entertaining. That's great.
Rohini Ross
We will definitely have to check out the
Angus Ross
We will, that's going through.
Rohini Ross
So the next question, has it been a difficult time in your relationship? And if there has what helped you to get through it?
Lainie Barrett
When we first started dating, I yeah, it's like I mentioned before, I still had a lot of like, similar habitual pattern thinking that came rushing in. And so it's just so true that relationships aren't with the person, they're with whatever baggage and so I wasn't able to just the way we you know, when we were in the honeymoon, er, like, clearly with this human and just, instead, I was really in my fog. And so we it just took us a long time to navigate, like high anxiety, sort of broken expectations for her specifically around, I needed to sleep separately to get a good night's rest, and I needed a good good night's rest to not be a monster. So we really had to navigate like, once all of like, my truths came to surface. And she stuck by me I did like traditional therapy for a little while. And then when that ended, I kind of came back into this understanding and I think that really helped to just kind of relax a little bit.
Angus Ross
So how do you divide domestic labor in your relationship?
Lainie Barrett
This is something that comes up for us a lot. Because I would I would like to more specifically, like, divided up so that we just know what we're doing. Versus like, she's much better at like, feeling like, I'm not keeping track, and I don't, you know, but I'm sort of like, well, I, I'm a little more tip for tat, if you will, like, I'm like, Why just did this? Like, why did you just go get ready for bed instead of like, you know, I want to get ready for bed too, but I'm washing the dishes. So that would be a work in progress, because we haven't really made it official, it's more just something that keeps kind of naturally occurring. And then that sort of sometimes brings up some costs, if it doesn't feel even. So,
Rohini Ross
And we don't think that there's a right way with any of this. We're just curious to see how people navigate it. Because everybody kind of has different ways of figuring this out. We still we've been married with 26.
Angus Ross
Yeah. And I was hoping that with these podcasts, there was gonna be some significant pearls of wisdom come forward, but could rectify years of drama around this very, very issue.
Rohini Ross
This question is for Angus.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah. And I'll say yeah, we just started living together. When would have been like February last? We've been living together for like a year. I think. So. You know, fresh.
Angus Ross
Rohini' s idea, ideal idea of washing off is just to throw it all in the trash.
Lainie Barrett
Not true. Yeah, kind of micromanaging. And she wishes I'd kind of just trust her to do things. And then sometimes I'm like, I'd rather do it myself. Because then I know it's happening the way I want it to. But then I'm like, you don't do enough. So it's really she's kind of screwed.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, Ellie and I are on the same page. I would say. I can relate. Alright, so the next question is How are finances handled in the relationship?
Lainie Barrett
Well, right now, we are, like pretty separate. We just like we'll kind of, you know, we have we're not married or anything. So we're separated and then we'll kind of tally up like, who's been paying for what and then even without, or page or their back? And then But eventually, I'm hoping for full blown sugar mama status.
Lainie Barrett
House dad house person she can like, go do the corporate world.
Rohini Ross
Isn't she doing her MBA?
Lainie Barrett
Yeah,
Rohini Ross
Yeah. So realistic? All right. Your turn.
Angus Ross
Is it my son? Yes. How our finances, how our finances handled, and you're really sorry, I'm getting a little bit worried. I need to text my client to tell him I'm late. But I will ask this question. Now. You want to send a text? I can ask this question. What was the biggest misunderstanding you woke up from in your relationship?
Lainie Barrett
Hmm, I think I'm still trying to get there. You know, I'd love for us to like both kind of sometimes be exploring this because I feel like sometimes people's answers are like we together. Oh, maybe that's my misunderstanding. To get this for us to be good. But I think I think really just learning and knowing that you can't get your peace of mind from your partner. You know, you go Yeah, so I'm really still learning how to like kind of self soothe. And, and not need that from her. Because you just can't operate that way.
Angus Ross
And that's profound. Fantastic.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, it is really profound.
Rohini Ross
And so what's the favorite thing that your partner does for you?
Lainie Barrett
When we go on trips, man, it's sort of favorite least favorite. When we
Rohini Ross
That’s the next question, by the way.
Rohini Ross
So for example, we were talking
Angus Ross
About traveling here I'm assuming
Lainie Barrett
we, we went camping like before COVID with a big group and I was a little irresponsible that night on the drinking front, and the next day, I just felt like death in and was just sitting in the car like laying back. And she just does this thing where she like, put, you know, gets the tent, all packaged and sleeping bags and just gets us all ready to go. And then we leave and she doesn't really shame me about it. And it's just, she's, she's just very grace giving, very giving, and very like. Um, yeah, grease giving and giving.
Rohini Ross
It's really heartwarming sounds
Angus Ross
Like a key but to me. Unless, I don't know that will I should have asked. Well, yeah, that will now depend on how this next question goes. What is the least favorite thing your partner does?
Lainie Barrett
I did try to prepare for this one as I flipped through my Rolodex. But I think I'll just go with the surfacey one. Which would be her addiction to Cinnamon Toast Crunch. I just have some serious judgment around it. And yeah,
Rohini Ross
What do you have against Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
Angus Ross
I just have a problem again.
Lainie Barrett
I'm like, Ah, this is so heavily Yeah, it's just sugary. It's processed and like, why can't you eat adult cereal? And I don't know it just it gets me. When she's four years cinnamon toast crunch, she looks at me with the lowly worm.
Rohini Ross
That's how I look at you. Eating my chocolate.
Lainie Barrett
Exactly.
Angus Ross
Is that it's your turn now.
Rohini Ross
Yeah it's my turn. Do you have any relationship deal breakers? And if you do, what's one of them?
Lainie Barrett
You know, I just so for me, this is just imagined. Yeah, but I think I can't. Who knows, but I just feel like I can't survive infidelity. I just know how my brain works. And I don't think I'd be able to on obsess over that.
Rohini Ross
Yeah, I mean, we all have our bandwidth and limitation. So I think that's a pretty common one.
Lainie Barrett
Yeah. And I mean, you know, it could change who knows, but when I like, think about it, I'm like, that's the one that really gets me. Yeah, that makes sense.
Angus Ross
All right, how do you keep physical intimacy alive in your relationship?
Lainie Barrett
Yes, I would call this a work in progress. But, um, I think just, we definitely, you know, make each other laugh a lot. And I sometimes when we're watching TV, I kind of like want more space. But I realized just being able to build it in like doing a little more acts of service in the terms of like massage for her things like that. I realized even just yesterday, it was kind of working something out for her and her neck and just the act of like, I'm touching her body again, feels like a closeness, you know, and so there's just so many different entry points, I think for keeping it alive, but I think I need to give her more massages.
Rohini Ross
Oh, well, hopefully she listens to this.
Angus Ross
I think I think Rohini would like me to be in another room while she's watching TV.
Lainie Barrett
So this is where we, where I'm more like Rohini
Rohini Ross
Was my because I guess I was watching something with subtitles yesterday. And he was just talking, talking talking. He doesn't he's not watching this show. I'm just ignoring him because I'm trying to read the subtitles and I can't have a conversation and read
Angus Ross
Something. You do that anyway. Even if it's with that without subtitles. You just want to focus you don't want to have the flow interrupted. Yeah. I like to talk about the show and say that I know what's happening next.
Lainie Barrett
Oh, Angus, I pause the show like every four seconds to say something to Elli. She's, yeah, she wants to be physically close to me. And I want to like sit off in a chair. But I talk and ramble the whole time and she's super, zigzagging
Angus Ross
I'm kindred spirits on that front.
Rohini Ross
I'm always like, pausing the video to say
Lainie Barrett
Like, Oh my god, will this you know
Angus Ross
30 to 30 minutes show last two hours, right?
Lainie Barrett
The way i explain. Oh, and yeah, she always is like, when we look at the clock for how much time we have to watch a show. She's like, well, if we're watching an hour, it's gonna be two hours. So I don't think we have time to watch that. Watch a 30 minute fee for something.
Rohini Ross
Oh my goodness. Parallels. I have no idea.
Rohini Ross
So. Final question. If you could only say one thing to Ally, what would you say to her?
Lainie Barrett
I really appreciate you and see you and see what you do for me.
Angus Ross
It's lovely. That's lovely. Stop with the cinnamon crunch.
Lainie Barrett
Cut that out and cut this out.
Rohini Ross
It's a long one thing.
Angus Ross
Start with a cinnamon crunch one face.
Rohini Ross
Landed on such a beautiful
Angus Ross
It's good, though he pushed my tears.
Rohini Ross
Anyway. Oh, my goodness. So um, yeah, that was that's the end of our questions. So fun having you on really, really appreciated everything that you shared. I really hope that it's inspiring to many just the way that your post was on social media. I hope that this continues to help give permission to people to really honor who they experience themselves to be, and express that in the world freely and enrich all of us as a result of that.
Lainie Barrett
Oh, it was awesome to talk with you guys. Yeah, this was a lot of fun.
Angus Ross
Thank you. I you know, I think at the beginning, you alluded to the fact that you weren't sure you felt you seemed like you were going to struggle to know what to say. But I you've been so articulate, really, I'm really, I'm really inspired by your story and how you articulated as I say, it's wonderful. Thank you.
Rohini Ross
Yeah. And I think it's really a benefit to many people. So I'm really grateful that we get to help share this with the world. Way too.
Lainie Barrett
Thank you both. This is awesome.
Rohini Ross
Thank you so much for listening to rewilding love. If you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know by subscribing on iTunes. And we would love for you to leave a review there.
Angus Ross
iTunes reviews will steer people to this podcast who need help with their relationships.
Rohini Ross
If you would like to learn more about our work and our Online Rewilding Community, please visit our website, therewilders.org
Angus Ross
Thanks for listening. Join us next week.